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Post by Annie on Aug 24, 2006 8:58:36 GMT -5
A lot of guys on SW.com don't like it that Lucas changed the ghost. I admit I was shocked to hear it at first, but now I think it's perfect and I can't accept the old ghost anymore. The old man was very good to see back in the eighties, I used to love that part, it was as endearing to me as it was to other fans.
But the difference is, now that we have the prequels, we see that that ghost doesn't fit anymore. Back then we didn't know anything about Anakin's past. Now that we do, we know he was a young, handsome blond man, and the old man of nearly 80 who looks nothing like him seems just as out of place (to me anyway) as the fake emperor in ESB who's also been replaced. Anakin wasn't so old when he turned, so he wouldn't have been old when he died. As someone who is now about the age Vader was when he died, it's ridiculous to me to see a 78 year old man in the role and have people saying 'but he died OLD.' Okay, so he's not young anymore, but he's not old! There are many people in their 40's, famous and otherwise, I have seen who have not changed much, and even the ones who have, you can still tell it's the same person, you don't need to get an 80 year old to replace them. (it seems before the prequels, Vader was supposed to have been a much older man, as was Obi-Wan, hence the 'old fossil' comment, the Clone Wars were originally suppoed to have been 20 years before the twins were born, but the story changed with the prequels.)
If Anakin had lived, and not been maimed, it's likely he'd have stayed in great shape as a Jedi, and still have been hot in his 40's like many stars we see who haven't changed much since they were younger. His being 'ravaged by the dark side' was healed by the force when he died- remember even Shaw as a ghost had his limbs back and wasn't burned. So if the force was going to restore his body, wouldn't it go back to what he looked like before he was hurt? That's what Lucas had in mind. But even if it was what he would have looked like 'old', Shaw is still much too old, and his features look nothing like Hayden's. Shaw was fine in the old times, but now that we have the prequels, and now that we see and 'know' Anakin, Hayden IS Anakin, and he should be the ghost. I'd also personally like to see him in the death scene in burn makeup, and I'd even like to see Padme's ghost added (though I know that is a stretch)
Okay, rant over. But no matter how you may feel about this topic philisophically, you have to admit, Hayden looks a whole lot better;)
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Post by Steller's Jay on Aug 24, 2006 13:07:07 GMT -5
I agree completely, Annie! When I first heard Lucas was replacing the ghost with Hayden, I was mad. Then I saw Hayden in the prequels and I was so affected by the sadness in ROTS, that I was thrilled to see him as the ghost.
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Post by christyc21 on Aug 24, 2006 18:13:30 GMT -5
I was shocked too, but not mad...I actually thought that was really good because, as you said Annie, he wasn't old or anything, and he was young when he was turned Dark, so of course the Force would return him to when he wasn't burned, scarred, and return him to what he looked like when he was younger....
Ps. I wanted to see Padme's etheral form too(Luke needs to see his mom, he never got too, and Leia too)...I even wanted to see Anakin and Padme reunite , She wouldn't have been old either..she died at a young age, 27 or 28...I mean...Anakin needs a happy ending, I know he got one,His son lived and he was turned back to the light..but still...I'm a hopeless romantic at heart and I just want to see it work out, yes a very long strech, but come on...its a thought right.....
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Post by Annie on Aug 24, 2006 19:22:47 GMT -5
Here's a picture I found, this is how it should have been!  |
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Post by Steller's Jay on Aug 24, 2006 23:11:13 GMT -5
That's so beautiful.....*sigh*
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Post by Saphira on Aug 25, 2006 1:57:43 GMT -5
Of course! And another example is Johnny Depp. He's in his 40s, he sure isn't old, and he's damn hot to! If Anakin had lived and had npt been maimed, he would have stayed in good shape as a Jedi, even in his 40s. He still would have been really hot! I don't think someone in their 40s is old at all! Maybe in your 80s, but 40s is still very young, imo! And yes, his being ravaged by the dark side was healed and restored when he became a force ghost. He was like he was before he turned to the dark side.
And I agree, Hayden is Anakin, and I think its good they changed it. It makes it even more emotional. NOW we know who was the man in the suit. When I see Vader I picture Anakin/Hayden inside there. It doesn't make sense now to have Shaw there now. It doesn't fit. And since we do know Anakin's past like you said, the old man who's nearly doesn't fit. I agree with you there. It makes so much more sense if its Hayden. I wish they could have had Natalie there to..I always wondered, did Anakin ever meet Padme again after his death? We are left to our imagination..
I agree. Anakin was lost to the dark side at a young age. I think we seeing Anakin young in ROTJ, symbolizes the fact that Anakin is good again. The last time he was good-was at the age we see him in ROTJ. It shows Anakin back in his youth, before he turned to the dark side. The force would return him t when he wasn't burned and scarred. Restored his youth. I know some people believe that when one dies, they come back at their strongest, healthiest point. With no injuries whatsoever.
I agree with you. I also wanted to see Padme's force ghost at the end. Luke and Leia should have known about their mother to. I also noticed they didn't show much interest in their mother, Luke was always more interested in his father and never asked Ben who his mum was. Anakin got a happy ending, he got to see his son, turned back to the light, became one with the force. But what about Padme? If they edited it so Hayden's there, why not Padme to? And why wasn't Leia there? Luke saw his Dad, but Leia didn't. I agree with you completely, I just want to see it work out to! I wish they had done that..
And beautiful picture Annie! Your right, that's how it should have been!
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Post by christyc21 on Aug 25, 2006 21:23:08 GMT -5
Awesome Picture Annie!!! That is Exactly how it should have been...where did you find it?  |
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Post by Annie on Aug 25, 2006 21:46:53 GMT -5
I found it on a Hayden site, made by another fan, I don't know who or how she did it! I'd like to thank her for it!
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Post by christyc21 on Aug 28, 2006 21:25:40 GMT -5
I found it on a Hayden site, made by another fan, I don't know who or how she did it! I'd like to thank her for it! Wow...Yeah, I'd like to thank her too..hmm..I wonder if she has considered showing that to George..cause...that would be a Great idea for him... |
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Post by Saphira on Aug 30, 2006 22:36:57 GMT -5
Yes I would like to thank her as well! Your right Cristyw21! She should show that to George, it would be a great idea for him!
The ending of ROTJ should have been like that! With Anakin and Padme side by side looking upon their children. I don't see why not. Probably because Padme was not a Jedi..and couldn't become a force ghost. Seems to unfair!
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Post by padme52 on Sept 2, 2006 5:38:23 GMT -5
I was plesantly suprised to see Anakin as a force ghost , it just fits now and makes sense.
Hopefully he will do something one day at the end of Jedi when the mask is removed. That does not fit anymore either.
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Post by crystalcat on Sept 2, 2006 9:19:10 GMT -5
The substitution of the ghost, but not the unmasked face (which could be done with today's technology, and slipped in, leaving Mark Hamill's performance intact) makes me wonder if there was a contractual obligation to the original actor (forgot his name). I know he's dead now, but the contract would still have to be upheld for his estate. If Hayden were substituted for the unmasking, the original actor would be completely written out of the movie, and I'm sure his estate probably receives some royalties from it.
I suspect that when ROTJ was first shot, Lucas had the original contract state that if and when he ever made the subsequent films, the actor who played Anakin in those would be substituted for the ghost. But he probably felt that because the flesh Anakin was so badly wounded, it wouldn't matter about substituting for him there (including the voice, as it was his throat and lungs that were damaged).
I'd like to see Hayden substituted, though. Heck, I'd like to see Hayden substituted for David Prowse's part, too.
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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Sept 2, 2006 11:38:01 GMT -5
I'm sure there could be a settlement for the old Anakin's estate.......
They NEED to put Hayden in that last scene..... which like you said could easily be done...... I wonder if they filmed it, wouldn't that be GRAND and they are saving it for a special edition release or something?
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Post by Annie on Sept 3, 2006 19:10:28 GMT -5
The substitution of the ghost, but not the unmasked face (which could be done with today's technology, and slipped in, leaving Mark Hamill's performance intact) makes me wonder if there was a contractual obligation to the original actor (forgot his name). I know he's dead now, but the contract would still have to be upheld for his estate. If Hayden were substituted for the unmasking, the original actor would be completely written out of the movie, and I'm sure his estate probably receives some royalties from it. Oh yes, I have thought of this too. This must be the case, it must be the money. I have even accused some of those on SW.com who so overzealously and vehemently defend Shaw- and by name, not just 'the old ghost' or 'the old man'- of being his grandchildren! Some of them have an unnatural and unhealthy claim of attachment to "Shaw" and never let the threads die. It's the same three or four guys all the time. They are really hung up on it. I also wondered if "Jedi Kev" with his scary hate of Hayden for replacing Shaw- even to the point of death threats against Hayden- might have some kind of connection. He posted from England and that's where Shaw was from. Whether he is his grandson or not, he's one crazy, obssessed and dangerous fan. I hope someday the unmasking can be shot with Anakin's eyes and voice, that would make the saga so complete. (as good as it can get other than these AU stories!) |
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Post by Annie on Sept 3, 2006 21:07:41 GMT -5
Another reason I think Lucas is 'stuck' with Shaw is that he still lists him 'as Anakin Skywalker' in the ROTJ credits, even after they changed the ghost. Who would ever have expected back in 83 that Anakin would have been a young hot blond dude?  |
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