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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Nov 4, 2006 1:52:21 GMT -5
Okay, Anakin was our hero, did remarkable things...... Vader was pure evil, for 20 years he did terrible, horrible things......
Can one act of goodness, erase all that he's done?
It just seems that it was all too simple.... I guess.... maybe he should have had a little more trial before he was forgiven by the force?
I know this is discussed alot.
But I guess I feel that the Force is like God....... if a serial killer is truly sorry and remorseful for what he has done, he will be welcomed into heaven when he dies.... if his heart is pure and honest.....
This is what I feel Anakin was at the end.... he heard all his memories, saw his beloved son, the son of Padme..... and he knew who he was..... The Chosen One...........
Any thoughts? I would love to discuss.
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Post by samantha on Nov 4, 2006 4:01:32 GMT -5
Yes, as far as concerning forgiving Anakin, I'd done it long ago, for as I said, the Goodness I've seen in him was my own, PadméSkywalker. What I mean is, by forgiving him, I've forgiven my own errors too. For to forgive's the seal of unconditionnal love, a thing perfectly understood and done by Padmé when he first turned and as she passed away.
One act of Goodness can prove how wrong it is to have one mind made up regarding somebody else, especially when we're in the unknown about his/her past, which is no longer the case, here.
It's true than a sincere remorse is the key to make it back to the Light, but also an obvious fed up of the Dark Side's illusions one's be fed with during most of his lifetime, to realize he's been a puppet for others, such as Sidious, having less scrupules than someone as Anakin still had, emotionally speaking. For that's exactly where the bingo occurred, from my point of view.
Anakin's been confronted to the very source of his anger, his family he believed totally lost to him, and by fingering to it, he comprehended that he'd nothing to do with Sidious. Who, by showing his true face, by attempting to kill Luke in front of his eyes, convinced him it was more than time to resiliate his contract with the Dark Side to return to the Light Side, by precisely saving what Padmé left him: his children.
I can somewhat rely to what you're saying here, for when myself resiliated my contract with the Dark Side, by finding the foundation of my own emotional anger, all my past errors have been erased from my memories, all that remained was a thing called experience.
Those are my thoughts, PadméSkywalker.
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by Astrid on Nov 4, 2006 11:43:25 GMT -5
It was a lot easier after seeing the newest movie. That way I know he was never a really bad guy on the inside. The bad things he did as Vader were like temporary insanity, or out of the hurt of what happened to him. I know none of this would stand up in court for a real live person but it works for me in the Star Wars way. Yes, I forgive him. Fulfilling the prophecy ,and the force forgiving him and letting him be a ghost proves this as far as I can see.
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Post by crystalcat on Nov 4, 2006 13:56:24 GMT -5
But I guess I feel that the Force is like God..... Yes, I think so too, and because of this, I can accept unequivocally that Anakin was forgiven and forgive him myself. I don't feel it was too simple, either, or that he should have had to take some kind of goodness exam - longer or more complex than what he did - before God (i.e. The Force) decided to forgive him. Probably this stems from my personal feelings about God, however - one of the most touching things about God is that (in my personal beliefs) a person can be instantly forgiven no matter what they've done; all they have to do is change the way they are & act from that point forward. There is also the restriction that God reserves judgement for Himself (mortals are not permitted to dispense it, thank goodness). Other people don't necessarily share these views, however, and I acknowledge that. But now, what exactly is meant by forgiveness? I could forgive a serial killer, for instance, but that doesn't mean I would like him running around free no matter how much he claimed he had changed. Because I'm NOT God, I have no way of verifying the truth of his claim. There is a big distinction between forgiveness and trust. So yes, if Anakin had survived I would have expected to see a much longer, more complex demonstration of his return to the light so that he could regain the trust of those who forgave him. Death, of course, made this unnecessary, because then it was simply up to the Force, which already had perfect knowledge. So I guess I'm asking: when you say you think he should have had a little more trial first - are you asking from a trust standpoint? If so, I would agree with you. However, I've heard people on the SW boards that honestly only meant they wanted to "make him pay" - which to me is simply revenge. I don't feel there is a place or need for this. Exacting revenge will not undo his (or the serial killer's) bad deeds. All that is needed is to make sure he can't do any more damage. |
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Post by samantha on Nov 5, 2006 5:16:19 GMT -5
This couldn't be more true, crystalcat, for that's exactly what's that is. There is no need to exact revenge, for in that case, it'd be to not be doing any better that Anakin had done. For I've also noticed that very often, those speaking about making somebody else pay, for a reason or another, are those lecturing others thinking as we do, assuming that they know better, that they're possessing the truth, and that we don't.
There's a saying: "The truth is never with the one who thinks possessing it." It does check out.
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Nov 5, 2006 12:41:29 GMT -5
So I guess I'm asking: when you say you think he should have had a little more trial first - are you asking from a trust standpoint? If so, I would agree with you. However, I've heard people on the SW boards that honestly only meant they wanted to "make him pay" - which to me is simply revenge. I don't feel there is a place or need for this. Exacting revenge will not undo his (or the serial killer's) bad deeds. All that is needed is to make sure he can't do any more damage. Yes I guess that's what I mean...... I was just thinking about alot of stories about how Leia cannot forgive him..... if he had done more before dying, for example, more deeds of good, could she have forgiven him? She says in the EU One good deed doesn't erase all that he's (anakin) done as Vader...... I also forgive him, know his past, know Anakin "died" at that moment he found out Padme was dead and that he did it..... Vader took over and only until his son, Padme's son..... did Anakin start to resurface..... you can even here it when Vader and Luke are talking, Vader is softer.... Anakin is there! |
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Post by Annie on Nov 5, 2006 12:43:59 GMT -5
I forgive him because he was sorry and he did redeem himself. I know it doesn't take away the things he did, but as has been mentioned it makes a difference to know the whole story. Even after AOTC, I didn't like "Vader" very much, but after ROTS, I loved and pitied Anakin/Vader. In the days of the OT, I had the impression he was a mean guy, bad to the core, who was a middle aged veteran Jedi who betrayed his friends and abandoned his wife and babies for Palps only for his own greed and hunger for power. Now we know it wasn't exactly like that, how torn he was over his desicion and why he did it. While it doesn't make it right, it changes my feelings. It's like my Granddad used to say, the best you can expect of someone is that they change and never do it again. Anakin did. Also, it's interesting to think what he would have done if he had lived (which is what makes these fanfics so much fun!)
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Post by Annie on Nov 5, 2006 12:46:33 GMT -5
I have heard it's a beautiful thing, the true test of love, real love. I am still searching. So far I've found it in pets, but not humans. |
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Post by samantha on Nov 6, 2006 11:57:17 GMT -5
I've searched too, and found it, Annie. My only hope's then for you to find it also...
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by Steller's Jay on Nov 13, 2006 15:24:15 GMT -5
Can one act of goodness, erase all that he's done? It just seems that it was all too simple.... I guess.... maybe he should have had a little more trial before he was forgiven by the force? Yes, I think that one act (destroying the Sith and thus fulfilling the prophecy) can/did erase everything he'd done. If the Force truly is like God and Anakin was 'forgiven', I would think he would still harbor lots of guilt in the afterlife and that would be hard for him. |
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Post by arie on Nov 13, 2006 20:11:13 GMT -5
Can one act of goodness, erase all that he's done? It just seems that it was all too simple.... I guess.... maybe he should have had a little more trial before he was forgiven by the force? Yes, I think that one act (destroying the Sith and thus fulfilling the prophecy) can/did erase everything he'd done. If the Force truly is like God and Anakin was 'forgiven', I would think he would still harbor lots of guilt in the afterlife and that would be hard for him. I totally agree! Anakin seems like he WOULD have tons of guilt, and YES it would a terrible for him! The prophecy being fulfilled is indeed good reason to forgive Anakin in my eyes... and the Force's acceptance of him into a Jedi spirit... THAT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING! ;D |
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Post by Steller's Jay on Nov 13, 2006 20:58:56 GMT -5
Yep! And I suspect he and Obi-Wan would patch things up and help each other with guilt feelings.
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Post by Annie on Nov 20, 2006 22:49:21 GMT -5
I was thinking, there's one thing I don't forgive him for, and that's not attacking and killing Sidious as soon as he realized he had tricked him and it had cost him everything. I would have respected him a lot more if he had. If you've ever seen the miniseries North and South, in Part II, where Virgilia realizes she has been used by a congressman who led her to believe her life was in danger, and he then tells her the truth and casts her aside, she won't let him just go, she pulled out a gun and shot him! Vader should have taken Palps down even if it killed him. If he had the power to destroy the hospital, he could have done some damage to Palps too. I have a hard time with him always going 'yes my master' after that!
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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Nov 20, 2006 23:49:08 GMT -5
I see your point Annie, but I feel Vader wasn't "all there".... Anakin reasoned more... Vader was conditioned for 20 years to obey this man, who he thought was a friend, etc., it might have taken a little more time to "sink in" I mean 20 years is a long time... then boom, you find out your kid is alive.... wow......
I always felt though that he should have saved Luke sooner...... ya know? I mean Luke refused to kill him, when SIdious first used the lightening I was hoping he'd kill him.
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Post by samantha on Nov 21, 2006 4:22:36 GMT -5
You're very right, PadméSkywalker, for that's exactly what happened, indeed. I've been there. Anakin's been conditioned as Vader, through his emotional anger, to obey a man he considered a friend. For wrong or right.
And it's been for wrong, for he saw Palpatine's true face at last, when this one opted to kill his son, for he refused to take his place at the Emperor's side. A thing Anakin hasn't been able to carry out in his youth, due to his emotional state. He'd been too weak to say NO, for his fears had taken over. And he'd said YES, having no clue whatsoever this dreadful choice would led him to. Until this moment.
And that's the very reason why Anakin refused to let him killed in return. For him, the thought surely reminded him of Padmé's very death, and he knew he wouldn't bear another familial loss. That's where Anakin shown he's been still there all this time, destroying the ever submissive Vader so dear to Palpatine.
Kisses,
Sam.
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