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Post by Astrid on Oct 30, 2006 9:37:11 GMT -5
This was a big thing for me. Even in AOTC we didn't know why he turned. Once we found out why he turned and it was because of his love for Padme it only makes me feel more sorry for him and I can't hate the Vader in ANH, ESB and ROTJ anymore. He's not only a monster in a suit and mask anymore. Has this new information changed your views too or do you still feel the same?
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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Oct 30, 2006 10:57:11 GMT -5
I totally agree, he is such a tragic man...... I don't hate him, but I still wonder how he did all those evil things? How could such a good man go so evil? Ya know? I mean he killed people left and right..... Did he never think of Padme? On you tube there is a video where Vader meets Luke in ROTJ, and someone put in what Vader is "hearing" its Padme, etc., while Vader is looking at Luke its awesome.... I'll try to find....
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Post by samantha on Oct 30, 2006 11:48:58 GMT -5
First of all, I never hated Vader before, for the simple reason than the Goodness I was seeing inside of him was the Goodness inside my own heart, that's why he never crossed my mind, at one time or another, to hate him.
When I got the information, I got my intuition proven right about him, why did he turned to Dark Side, and led him to commit such things: the loss of his Beloved Wife has been too great for him, so emotionally speaking, his anger knew no bounds, he knew no peace, until he met face to face his son, and realized he's been tricked.
This understanding came from the fact Palpatine tried to kill him right in front of his eyes, persuaded Anakin was still within his power, but got proven wrong, for Anakin's love for his family came out, resulting by the killing of his tormentor. Therein proving Luke and Padmé right: "There was/is still Good in him".
Palpatine's demise came from his underestimation of the power of love, especially what Anakin was feeling still towards his family, assumed to be lost for good to him. until Luke shown up...
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by arie on Oct 30, 2006 17:02:07 GMT -5
I also must say I never hated Vader in the first place. He was always and forever my favorite... even back when I was younger and I vowed to myself that Star Wars was NOT cool... LOL. I didn't understand it, and when something doesn't make a lick of sense to you, then you tend to hate it. Now, I love Star Wars so much it scares people... so don't freak out or anything.
Anyway, ROTS only strengthened my love for Vader/Anakin. It has become a habit of mine to grow attached to the most tragic and angsty characters... my heart seems to go out to them and connect with them better.
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Post by Astrid on Oct 31, 2006 11:50:23 GMT -5
Thank you for your responses. Does it bother you to know that inside that suit is a burned and chopped up guy, and does that make him any less "cool" or "intimadating?" I must admit that bothered me too. Even though I knew he had been injured I didn't know how gross it was or that it was some young good looking guy who that happened to and maybe that's why it's so much more sad.
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Post by duffy on Oct 31, 2006 11:53:06 GMT -5
It definitely changed my opinion of him........he was tricked and it was such a tragedy.
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Post by samantha on Oct 31, 2006 12:09:02 GMT -5
It never bothered me either way, for outside wounds reflect those of the Soul, if you see what I mean, that's why it never bothered me one bite.
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by PadmeSkywalker on Oct 31, 2006 12:36:57 GMT -5
I'm not less intimitated by Vader, I feel sorry for him, something I never did, now knowing why he turned. Being that he is burnt up fried, under there, makes me feel more compassion towards him.
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Post by crystalcat on Oct 31, 2006 21:10:16 GMT -5
I'm not sure it changed how I feel about the character - ROTJ did that for me. Luke got through to him and that was what mattered - he could come back. Not that even someone like Sidious couldn't come back, but he would never choose to do so. Anakin DID choose. And I think this is more what surprised me about ROTS - that he didn't make a wholehearted decision to follow the dark path in the first place (I am not talking about what happened after he pledged to Sidious, just up until that point).
But I liked the story arc about Vader in the first trilogy - I always like it where the audience is tweaked to hate a character and then it turns out that person is the (or a) hero. I was made to hate Vader in ANH because the story was set up so that he was an almost 2-dimensional bad guy. And then, in ESB, we start to see that he is human and fallible after all - we see his burned head and find out that he is Anakin (although I didn't believe it for 3 years). By ROTJ, it's obvious (at least it was to me) that he was only following the dark path because he thought he'd done too many awful things to ever come back from it (and he probably thought to himself that was what the Jedi meant when they said you could never return from the dark path), and he had nothing else left so he didn't care (despair would feed the dark side). He wanted Luke to turn to the dark side, not so much so that Luke would become evil, but because he wanted his son with him and knew (or thought he knew) he could not turn good again.
One of the (many) sad things about ROTS, though, is it seems that Anakin develops this attitude right after he gets Mace killed (he didn't kill him, and in fairness, he probably didn't think Sidious had the Force-energy left to kill him, either, and was likely surprised that he did). He hates pledging to Sidious, but feels trapped by what happened to Mace, so he sinks deeper. And once he's pledged, he forces himself through the motions of being evil. He's cast himself as evil, believes he is evil (before he even does anything really evil), and therefore he can accept himself doing evil things.
But I think what surprised me the most was that he didn't appear to be entirely sane when Padme and Obi-Wan met up with him on Mustafar. And I don't mean just "drunk with the power" - there was more of a "one foot off the edge of sanity" quality to the performance, IMO. As I think it had to be after what he'd had to make himself do.
All in all, however, I was ecstatic that he turned for love and not for prestige as he could have done, given the character qualities Lucas had him display in AOTC and the beginning of ROTS.
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Post by samantha on Nov 1, 2006 5:06:24 GMT -5
This was the most pleasant reply I ever was given to read, crystalcat, for you got exactly the point I wanted to make, and expressed it perhaps better than I did at the first place. Thanks for sharing!
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by Annie on Nov 20, 2006 22:53:28 GMT -5
Yes it did change my view of him that he wasn't just some bad guy who wanted to be evil, he had tragic reasons behind it. It makes me feel too sorry for him to hate him. Now every time I see the OT I can't help but see Hayden's face when Vader comes on!
This is another thing that changed my mind about him, but not in a good way!
(posted on another thread)
..and that's not attacking and killing Sidious as soon as he realized he had tricked him and it had cost him everything. I would have respected him a lot more if he had. If you've ever seen the miniseries North and South, in Part II, where Virgilia realizes she has been used by a congressman who led her to believe her life was in danger, and he then tells her the truth and casts her aside, she won't let him just go, she pulled out a gun and shot him! Vader should have taken Palps down even if it killed him. If he had the power to destroy the hospital, he could have done some damage to Palps too. I have a hard time with him always going 'yes my master' after that!
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Post by samantha on Nov 21, 2006 4:09:28 GMT -5
So do I. Who doesn't?
Yes, but see, I can understand what Anakin felt at this time when he carried out Palpatine's destruction. He never bore the idea to be betrayed by his peers, or by anyone else. To him, to have been tricked and lured into the Dark Side by a person he respected very much, such as Palpatine, must have been a terrible slap he's received in full face, Annie.
The point is, if he had let Palpatine live, he would have killed Luke anyway, and tried to get to Leia after that. Palpatine belonged to those power-angry Souls, stopping at nothing to get what they want, even it it means to hurt and destroy others' lifes. And I bet that Anakin grabbed it at this point, justly. If in his youth he'd believed Palpatine's lies, he knew now he couldn't buy them anymore. He'd to stop him, somehow.
Palpatine's death through his ancient Apprentice's hands symbolizes his way to say STOP, I don't believe you, nor trust you anymore, you betrayed me all along, why should I stick by your side when in fact you're not worth it?
It's very tricky, I agree. Myself, I can't stand the idea of betrayal either, and if you do betray me, I erase you from my life, I stop answering one's mails. It's another way to say: You've no power over me.
Kisses,
Sam.
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Post by DarthAnakin on Jan 2, 2007 8:39:55 GMT -5
it totally changed my feelings for vader since we find out why the turned to the darkside. in IV,V and VI everyone knew him as horrific monster who didnt give a second thought before killing someone. but when you see I, II, and III you see past the whole monster and see the goodness in him.
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Post by padme52 on Mar 1, 2007 21:46:03 GMT -5
Yes I understood why he was so sad especially his eyes. I understood him finally.
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